A coffee maker or a toaster will surprise you in that they have very high power consumption demands. They will consume anything from 800 watts up to 1500 watts or more. What you need to do when you are setting up your system is look at the devices that you are going to be powering. Then get the inverter that will be large enough to power your needs and wants.
This Motomaster inverter shows the amount of charge that the battery has. You can monitor it and be aware of when it is going to run out. This unit has two outlets and a USB outlet. It also has a port to use a remote control to turn it on and off.A wired remote control came with this unit. Ideal if you have the unit in an RV’s storage compartment and want to be able to turn it on/off from the comfort of your easy chair.The display flips between the battery capacity and the amount of draw on the system. With nothing plugged in it will be zero – it will, however, eventually drain your battery so do not leave it on. Here the device plugged in is pulling 20 watts.I used a spare courier envelope to stick to the lid of the tote, reminding anyone using the unit to leave the lid open when using/charging the system.This is a relatively compact system that will power a wide range of electrical devices for 24 or more hours. Need more – add a second battery. Needless, well, then there are many other options from using a smaller battery and inverter to getting something from your favorite shopping outlet.
This is our DIY electrical power. Pick up the bin (carefully, it’s heavy) and put it in your trailer, pickup truck, van, or car and you can haul electricity along with you. If you have an RV, then adding an inverter to your existing battery array will provide you with AC power in addition to DC power. Will everyone want a system like this – probably not. Can you purchase an inexpensive generator for about the same amount? Yes. There are times that a system like this will be exactly what you want. Next, we need to get a solar panel so that we are truly off the grid.
Why not use an lithium ion car battery instead of the heavy deep cycle battery? Couldn’t you put the bin on top of a movers dolly to more easier roll the thing around instead of trying to carry it?
Hi Davin x2, Great questions. The idea behind a deep cell battery is that it can handle the repeated draining and charging required in a setting like this. A Group 27 lithium ion battery, similar in capacity to the Group 27 battery used here, would cut the weight in half as they are just under 30 pounds. However, they cost in the neighbourhood of $1000 which is FIVE times the price of the battery used. Our choice was the best price to power ratio.
A car battery is designed to provide a huge burst of power for a short time and then be recharged by the alternator. Drain it frequently and it’s life will be shortened. A deep cell battery is designed to provide steady current over a long period of time; drained right down without shortening their lifespan. It will not work well to start your engine as it doesn’t have the cranking power.
The Group 27 is a large and obviously heavy battery and was specifically chosen for the lifespan and amount of ongoing power it would provide at the expense of weight. We knew it wouldn’t be portable. As mentioned in the article on page 3, we will be getting some castors for the case so that it can be rolled about more efficiently.
You mentioned solar panels. How would one go about hooking this up to solar? My son had SMA and we’d like to take him places next summer. This with solar would be perfect.
Hi Mike, I don’t know a lot about solar power but it appears to me that many solar panels have the ability to charge batteries. I will be looking into this more eventually. Sorry I cannot give you more substantial answers but I just haven’t set this up myself. Frank
Quick crazy Question.. could i adapt this as a in car solution to not use the existing car battery? how would i charge? i guess plug in the charger to either an alternator or in to a lighter socket? Is this possible?
Hi Jeff, first sorry that I’m over a year late in responding. Second this is not a good idea as it would drain your car battery quickly thus leaving you stranded. There are low power inverter systems you can get that plug into your car lighter socket that would be a better solution – but they will drain the batter if the car is not running.
Lemme think. A typical larger 12v lead acid deep cycle battery is 100ah (or 1200 wh).
I think that lead acid batteries can use less of their total rating than a lithium battery (50% vs. 90%? something like that).
A lithium backup battery setup complete with built-in charging stuff and inverter is something about $1 / wh, so for $500-$600 you could have roughly the same setup but much more portable,etc.
Not in the case of lithium all-in-one emergency batteries.
They’ve been at about $1 / wh all this time. It’s the sort of thing I keep track of living in a state that has regular power shutdowns in order to avoid fires. Gas generators are kind of a pain to listen to.
I’m actually kind of surprised there haven’t been big price drops, perhaps the technology is currently at a sticking point with these sizes.
Now, a really brilliant product would be to take an electric start generator, hang a good sized battery on the front of it, and cycle the generator to keep the battery full. That same battery could be used to start the gas motor when needed. All downstream power would be through the battery (and an inverter, a thing that better generators already have). There’s no point in having a gasoline engine roaring the whole time.
as an aside, the best part of plumbing a battery between a gas generator and a power consumer is that the generator could be sized to average load rather than peak.
Just as a data point, I bought a Polaroid PS600 (578wh) for $329 plus tax in October of 2019, and an Audew 220wh unit for $154 in Dec of 2018. Prices tend to jump up and down on these sorts of products.
If you can build something like that out of a cobbled together lead-acid setup, that would be cool. One advantage of homemade is that the individual pieces are replaceable if something fails plus, if you go big on components, the system is expandable. Pretty soon you are building a whole-house battery backup which is a whole ‘nother thing.
Lots of great ideas, William. For comparison, a PS600 in Canada is $1000 – if you can find one. My hope for the article was to provide some lower cost options for people who needed a short term solution. Sounds like you’ve got ideas for ongoing and long-term solutions! And I’m guessing that if you haven’t gone the whole house route, that this isn’t too far away!
Your design does not include an auto-on for your inverter. It is possible for your inverter to be turned off (unintentionally perhaps) meaning no backup if your system is unattended.
That remote switch on the Eliminator Inverter most likely has unused pins. Mine has. Two of those non-populated wire on the RJ-11 connector (black wire and white wire can host a fix SPST switch. I build a circuit that monitors the hydro and turns on the inverter is power has gone off. The circuit uses an electronic switch instead. I added a relay to switch the load from main to inverter power with hydro goes off. It returns to original when hydro comes back on. I like your choice of AGM batteries and multi-stage charger.
Hi Ray, that is more complex than I needed but certainly extends the functionality. In my case, we are always present when running the inverter. And as it’s an RV that is usually ‘boondocking’, there’s no electrical connection to shore power when the inverter is in use. Thanks for making me think about possible expansion routes! Frank
16 comments
Why didn’t you use a lithium ion Car battery for a light weight solution?
Why not put everything on a movers dolly so you can wheel it around easier?
Why not use an lithium ion car battery instead of the heavy deep cycle battery?
Couldn’t you put the bin on top of a movers dolly to more easier roll the thing around instead of trying to carry it?
Hi Davin x2,
Great questions. The idea behind a deep cell battery is that it can handle the repeated draining and charging required in a setting like this. A Group 27 lithium ion battery, similar in capacity to the Group 27 battery used here, would cut the weight in half as they are just under 30 pounds. However, they cost in the neighbourhood of $1000 which is FIVE times the price of the battery used. Our choice was the best price to power ratio.
A car battery is designed to provide a huge burst of power for a short time and then be recharged by the alternator. Drain it frequently and it’s life will be shortened. A deep cell battery is designed to provide steady current over a long period of time; drained right down without shortening their lifespan. It will not work well to start your engine as it doesn’t have the cranking power.
The Group 27 is a large and obviously heavy battery and was specifically chosen for the lifespan and amount of ongoing power it would provide at the expense of weight. We knew it wouldn’t be portable. As mentioned in the article on page 3, we will be getting some castors for the case so that it can be rolled about more efficiently.
Hi there,
You mentioned solar panels. How would one go about hooking this up to solar? My son had SMA and we’d like to take him places next summer. This with solar would be perfect.
Hi Mike, I don’t know a lot about solar power but it appears to me that many solar panels have the ability to charge batteries. I will be looking into this more eventually. Sorry I cannot give you more substantial answers but I just haven’t set this up myself.
Frank
Quick crazy Question..
could i adapt this as a in car solution to not use the existing car battery? how would i charge? i guess plug in the charger to either an alternator or in to a lighter socket? Is this possible?
Hi Jeff, first sorry that I’m over a year late in responding. Second this is not a good idea as it would drain your car battery quickly thus leaving you stranded. There are low power inverter systems you can get that plug into your car lighter socket that would be a better solution – but they will drain the batter if the car is not running.
2.5 years later.
Lemme think. A typical larger 12v lead acid deep cycle battery is 100ah (or 1200 wh).
I think that lead acid batteries can use less of their total rating than a lithium battery (50% vs. 90%? something like that).
A lithium backup battery setup complete with built-in charging stuff and inverter is something about $1 / wh, so for $500-$600 you could have roughly the same setup but much more portable,etc.
I’m just not feeling the love here.
2.5 years means a lot of change in both technology and prices!
Not in the case of lithium all-in-one emergency batteries.
They’ve been at about $1 / wh all this time. It’s the sort of thing I keep track of living in a state that has regular power shutdowns in order to avoid fires. Gas generators are kind of a pain to listen to.
I’m actually kind of surprised there haven’t been big price drops, perhaps the technology is currently at a sticking point with these sizes.
Now, a really brilliant product would be to take an electric start generator, hang a good sized battery on the front of it, and cycle the generator to keep the battery full. That same battery could be used to start the gas motor when needed. All downstream power would be through the battery (and an inverter, a thing that better generators already have). There’s no point in having a gasoline engine roaring the whole time.
as an aside, the best part of plumbing a battery between a gas generator and a power consumer is that the generator could be sized to average load rather than peak.
Just as a data point, I bought a Polaroid PS600 (578wh) for $329 plus tax in October of 2019, and an Audew 220wh unit for $154 in Dec of 2018. Prices tend to jump up and down on these sorts of products.
If you can build something like that out of a cobbled together lead-acid setup, that would be cool. One advantage of homemade is that the individual pieces are replaceable if something fails plus, if you go big on components, the system is expandable. Pretty soon you are building a whole-house battery backup which is a whole ‘nother thing.
Lots of great ideas, William. For comparison, a PS600 in Canada is $1000 – if you can find one. My hope for the article was to provide some lower cost options for people who needed a short term solution. Sounds like you’ve got ideas for ongoing and long-term solutions! And I’m guessing that if you haven’t gone the whole house route, that this isn’t too far away!
Your design does not include an auto-on for your inverter. It is possible for your inverter to be turned off (unintentionally perhaps) meaning no backup if your system is unattended.
That remote switch on the Eliminator Inverter most likely has unused pins. Mine has. Two of those non-populated wire on the RJ-11 connector (black wire and white wire can host a fix SPST switch. I build a circuit that monitors the hydro and turns on the inverter is power has gone off. The circuit uses an electronic switch instead. I added a relay to switch the load from main to inverter power with hydro goes off. It returns to original when hydro comes back on. I like your choice of AGM batteries and multi-stage charger.
Hi Ray, that is more complex than I needed but certainly extends the functionality. In my case, we are always present when running the inverter. And as it’s an RV that is usually ‘boondocking’, there’s no electrical connection to shore power when the inverter is in use. Thanks for making me think about possible expansion routes!
Frank