I Hate Car People

WHY DO WE SUCK?

Maybe the dominant shift in society is to blame for the demise of the car culture. Maybe it is the broad lack of respect and hypocrisy that has turned “car guys” into nothing more than whiney pricks who need to justify their purchases and assert their own superiority. On that note, I challenge you to read ANYONE’s review or opinion on a given product on a forum. 9 times out of 10 if they hate a given car or product, that is because it is a competitor or different from what they have bought. A person will praise a product 9 times out of 10 because they own it and have to convince others that they need it due to their own personal bias and in essence, buyer’s remorse that needs affirmation through agreement from others that what they purchased is in fact, the best. I see this time and time again. My Camaro SS 1LE is way better than your SS, or your Mustang. My M4 is so much better than your 335i. My BBS wheels are better than your Forgelines. Don’t even talk about my GT because you own an Ecoboost Mustang.

Why can’t we respect people anymore? Why can’t we appreciate others who have something different? What happened to the days where a Mercedes owner could look at the modifications someone did to their M3, or an EVO guy talk to an STI owner about what turbo is on their car rather than crap on it and try to argue why their 4G63 is so superior and can make far more power than the EJ-boxer, and that the Evo’s chassis handles so much better than the understeering pig of the STI?

To me, “Car guys” was somewhat of a brotherhood. Sure, there was always jokes to be made in jest amongst friends, giving someone a hard time for being the token MR2 owner in a group of Miatas, or the BMW guy in a Porsche gathering. But at the end of the day there was always respect for another motor head. The brotherhood seems to be gone and now ‘clicks’ have emerged with an “assimilate or die” attitude, where people are berated for not affording a V8 in a group of Camaros, or for not owning an M car at a BMW gathering, or for choosing to go forced induction when everyone in the group stays naturally aspirated. Jokes these days, just like stand-up comedy, are now more mean-spirited and serious than said satirically though a true underlying respect.

I’m sorry, but at the end of the day, you’re not a better person because you can afford the top of the line car and another guy can’t. You’re not better because you like Brand X more than Brand Y. And you’re not right because you chose to buy a given aftermarket part and another part is not ‘wrong’ just because you didn’t choose it. Your budget and personal preference does not make you right or better than another person. However, your criticism and belittlement does outright make you a far worse person.

In all likelihood, 90% of readers were turned off well before now and have clicked on the next article because they don’t want to see what’s truly in the mirror. I applaud you for continuing to read thus far. But I implore you to still be self-critical. In all likelihood you have pulled a douchey move in attempts to show your friends how much you know about a given car at a car show, or subconsciously argued why what you did to your car is better than what they did, or maybe you argued on a forum because you’re not face to face with the strangers you are belittling. I would simply recommend reassessing things a bit.

WHAT CAN WE DO DIFFERENTLY?

While reading car reviews might be the closest any of us will actually get to getting behind the wheel of a given car, can we at least go back to thinking for ourselves, reading things with a grain of salt and drawing our own opinions though reading a review rather than blindly accepting it as gospel? Can we go back to focusing on the positives rather than finding reasons to hate, and to put others down? Can we go back to celebrating a difference, even if it differs from our preference, rather than hating on it because it’s different? When did we become so narcissistic as a society? Can we have confidence in ourselves rather than let our own insecurities feed on and spread hate? Can we have the courage to stand up together for what’s right, against trolls and bullies, and call them out for their actions?

Maybe try to put yourself in other people’s shoes. Maybe try to realize a kid is being (more) responsible for buying that V6 Camaro instead of a more expensive SS that’s also more expensive to insure. Maybe he can’t afford the coilovers you purchased but would better off leaving his suspension alone until he can afford Brand X coilovers because you personally tried Brand Y and they fall apart and will cost him more in the long run. Maybe look out for your neighbor with this recommendation and spell it out for them rather than crap on Brand Y without justification.

Maybe start to look at the positives of cars, and cherish the differences that make each car unique rather than trying to justify why your Camaro is better than a Corvette, or why your modded EVO is better than a GTR. Maybe don’t be so insecure and appreciate other things and be happy with what you have. If you want to prove you and your car is faster than another car, go to an actual track and do it rather than talking smack at a car show.

At the end of the day, the car community is probably on borrowed time with the push for electric cars, ever-tightening EPA standards, and a global panic over ‘climate change’ and the need to restrict the emissions of cars when it won’t make ANY difference when other countries are allowed to pollute without restriction for their own energy creation, more than offsetting what any change in the automotive emissions could ever do.

We are a dying breed. And continued ignorance of the auto industry by politicians are killing our culture for no realistically beneficial reason. On top of that, kids care more about their Instagram and Twitter accounts than they do actually hanging out with each other, let alone hanging out in person or needing a car to actually see each other. Instead of hating on each other, can we not at least find the common interest in cars and stand together against the people who don’t even know if their car is an automatic or manual, or what side of the car their gas cap is on?

Your car, and your personal taste, opinions, modifications, and choices don’t define you. On the other hand, your attitude and the way you treat others sure does.

-Anonymous

 

93 comments

  1. I have a 99 B14 Sentra that I have tinkered with for years. Not dog car level, but getting there slowly (lol). I was at a stoplight leaving work one day and I saw this beautiful 370z in grey turning left and me turning right. I gave the driver a thumbs up and drove off, didn’t think much of it. A few days later, a friend of mine on a Z website sent me a link showing a pic of my car and that 370z driver hating on my car, calling it a rice car and what not, basically tearing it to shreds. It’s a shame that you can’t be respectful of people’s cars and just judge by what you see and not what’s underneath the skin. I did read this article thru and I believe you are right. People are quick to judge others without remorse and it’s kind of a sad time to be a car fan right about now.

  2. A prime example of what this article is all about is looking at all the snotty comments on our GT3RS videos on YouTube!

    1. Youtube/facebook comments are basicaly useless Mike, signal to noise ratio is too weak. technical forums about racing series or car building like Locost or FSAE or specmiata are usualy pretty good with way less trolls (although that argument over golfball dimples was prime trolling by that guy)

      There is a big difference between car guys that work/have worked in the industry and car guys in general. It’s the difference between an article about GTAC on Motoiq and on Speedhunters/Jalopnik. I can actualy ask a question on Motoiq and expect an answer instead of an opinion or criticism.

      I love talking about cars, but discussions with gas pump car guy end quickly when I understand that most people aren’t mechanically literate. I keep it at pleasantries and jokes about how my engine is rust free because mazda put a feature where it pisses oil all over itself.

      1. Here are my 2 Cents Worth on the topic… As someone who has managed events, cruises, and forums regularly…

        Automotive was once an Everyman’s Event. You get your ride you go mix it with folks; generally they were petrolheads and pretty down to earth ppl with acceptable edginess. These days it’s a “Rich Man Status Quo” kinda thing. Not the kinda rich that invites comradry and conversation; it’s the kind that basically involves one insecure duncebucket tryna lord over another OR tryna impress people who could give two flying fqs about what that idiot thinks. Said idiot couldn’t pop the hatch on the back end of his Lamborghini for crap’s sake.

        Building a Dyno Pet has always been a factor in this thing as well. However that particular category has either involved a true enthusiast who’s approachable or some twat that (again) is compensating for their lack of prowess in key areas. Nothing wrong with building it out of course but the category is on deathwatch due to EV adoption.

        In short where we are presently is Automotive Performance being a major facade for insecure folks with means and it’s gotta stop if it’s gonna thrive. Period.

  3. Just my 2 cents:

    Since I’m probably considdered old by todays standards, I am one who has seen and expirienced the change. But I honestly think there is another reason at work:

    Mobile phones

    Back in the day, you got on a forum behind your laptop/pc. Which ment, you got to first actually own one, plug it in/turn it on. Wait for it to booth up. Find the forum you are looking for. Read the topics on a big fish tank like screen. By then if your probably really interested and want to contribute, as you invested all that time already. It requires a lot of patience back in the day.

    Lets face it: Google is 21 years old. before 1998 the company didn’t exist. We used things like Altavista and Netscape. And don’t get me wrong: Both of them sucked compaired to what we use now. But because they sucked and still used them you at least had patience….

    Nowadays your phone is always on. When a fart can’t get past your cornhole people write about it. Or post it on Instagram. It’s mostly because everybody can use the internet at a whim that these problems arise. Its the sheep that want to be a part of something that causes the problems. Not the actual car guys that work on cars themselves.

    Back in the early the fast and the furious days those cars wheren’t on the internet yet, but you see them at car meetings and street races. The people where a exhaust equals 50 extra horsepower although the engine makes only 40.

    In my native Dutch I like to call them “Petjes Volk”. Its litterally translated as cap wearing people, but it usually means the lower end of the IQ spectrum, without being actually mentally handicapped.

    That being said: I hate everybody 😉 And this is the end of my rant/insight 😉 Does feel good to get that of my chest 😉 Oh, and posted from a screen 😉

      1. Autoevolution.com , car and driver.com , change.org , quora.com etc. Also suck as well too and don’t deserve your good time either politically correct and cancel culture garbage especially even nowadays , these days as well too.

    1. Political correctness and cancel culture are also hurting the car community and car lovers as well too and seriously what’s wrong with the Nissan z being called the Nissan z I just don’t get it stupid I hate all of political correctness and cancel culture and plus z even if its used in capitals even as used on the Nissan z is not really the same as the unfortunate misuse of the military symbol of z used on the Russian tanks for pro-war , pro-hate etc. among other negative things and actually has the same negative influence like the holocaust , the swastika etc. It’s just ridiculous and stupid and so wrong because it doesn’t even have same negative traumatic impact the car community has turned into a ghost of itself and it doesn’t even know it even the argument itself that it’s just wrong is terrible as a whole as well too.

  4. There’s a lot of egos in the car community. It’s easy to get sucked into two dangerous mindsets: tribalism (“Mustangs or nothing! Ford rules, GM is garbage”) and collecting (Forum signature mod lists, spending mega $$ on a “car build” without real goals). Ready access to social media on devices certainly makes it easier to fall into this. I personally think the shift in car talk from forums to Facebook and Instagram has been terrible for the hobby in general. Way less tech info, way more showing off.

    1. I think you are right as well. We were just having a conversation about this that if you thought forums were bad, social media is way worse!

  5. John,

    You’re completely right except about one thing. Car people have always sucked. 10 years ago the forums were full of crap advice. 10 years ago the car shows were full of assholes. 10 years ago people were tearing down each other to prove the car they bought was better. I’m sure that 10 years from now they’ll still suck, the forums will still be useless, and the car shows will still be full of assholes tearing each others cars down.

    1. Yeah, this is what I was thinking. I agree there’s too much negativity and not enough actual knowledge, but I think the author is viewing the car community of the past through a pretty thick set of rose-tinted glasses here.

      1. Agreed. Car shows have probably been a crapshoot since forever, but OP was younger and less jaded 10 years ago. There was certainly bad advice on forums 10 years ago, there still is today. People aren’t perfect, ignorance happens and if you’re lucky someone will correct it in a way that is effective and polite. In my experience, you’ll find pretty good people at autocrosses and track days. Bring a good attitude and you should have a fun time. I haven’t got the guts to risk my car drifting or drag racing, but I suspect there are good people there also.

  6. I think car people have always “sucked”. The loudest one never have much good to say and they are the easiest to hear. However I think that is true for every hobby I’ve been in. However, for every negative comment I’ve heard or read about my own or other peoples stuff, I have 10x memories of laughs, wins, and fails with my close friends and family. So those people can keep shouting, I have learned to ignore them. It’s likely that one day they will be humbled and figure it out, it’s just part of the process. I know I have been humbled a few times and I probably have a few more to go before I’m ten feet under.

  7. in my experience its not as bad as you make it sound… I mean yes all the negatives you listed do exist, but you make it sound like thats all that happens. personally I don’t see that too much…

    about v8 mustangs being better than v6/ecoboost mustangs or M3’s being better than 335’s and etc, well guess what, they are better. its also annoying to that v8/M3/whatever owner when the guy with the lesser car is going on about how the cars are the same or his is even better (hear this from some ecoboost owners) in some way. I bet 99% of the superiority complex started with someone being to annoying with their inferiority complex.
    Now that I think about it, I saw much more of superiority complex going on 5-10 years ago than I do now. I think now cars that aren’t the absolute pinnacle of performance but are still fun or unique in some way are starting to be much more widely accepted than they used to be.

    Toyota deserves far more public shaming for not offering a manual transmission in the Supra than it got.

    I’m completely with you on people reviewing their purchases though. its so rare to find someone that gives an honest review. its funny how people that spent their money on stuff talk about said stuff like they’re sponsored by said stuff. People really feel the need to justify their purchase and will be completely blind to any faults. The more expensive something is the more I see people behave this way. Till they sell it or replace it with something else, then it becomes a pos.

  8. Socratic Method or the 21 Century version: Street Epistemology It very well could help us great, good and average car guys convert into better states of mind about car culture. After all, us: we want to be entertained very well!!!!

  9. I think a lot of the problem stems from people building cars for the sole purpose of impressing others, and also assuming that is the reason why everyone else builds cars. They think it is some kind of status game when in reality 99.9% of the real world doesn’t care about cars in general and they care about your personal car even less. Always do it for yourself, help and guide those you can, and don’t berate them if they are not interested in your advice.

  10. I think being a car person, you naturally go through stages of evolution. For me, it’s easy to hate some of the people that buy a nice car but don’t want to wrench on it, or modify it. I think those people are crazy and I kind of hate them for that…my best friend is one of them, sorry!

    Personally, I got my first ‘attention getting’ car stolen (thank God the cops got it back, sans my $$$$ wheels) and had it for over 13 years. But nowadays, I purposely drive cosmetically ‘ugly’ vehicles that run great (because I make them run great.) The only time my current car has been broken into is when I stupidly left it unlocked. Yeah, it doesn’t impress people, but it drives and handles great, and has an awesome custom stereo, and that’s all I care about anymore, since I am old now. Besides, when you’re in the car, you don’t notice how ugly it is on the outside.

    Bonus Point: I don’t approve of street racing, but in my occasional spurious moments of stupidity, I do enjoy the fact that if I do manage to crash my car someday, at least, I won’t be destroying a thing of beauty. I honestly couldn’t forgive myself if I crashed some of the cars I see on the street (passed by a McLaren 720S earlier today.)

  11. I was all about this post until the author implies that the growing adoption of electric cars is somehow incompatible (or even actively destroying) car culture and that climate change is both not real and a dumb thing to try and fight. Those are two pretty ignorant positions for someone who claims to be against ignorance.

    As a “car guy” advocating for respecting the passions and interests of others, I would think you’d be all about the whole new frontier of electric hot rodding where you can Frankenstein a Tesla powertrain (or two Leaf motors) into all kinds of cars and go ridiculously fast with a “fuel” that comes out of an outlet.

    Also, it’s fine if you really want to fly in the face of the compendium of fact-based evidence that climate change is very much a real thing with real impacts to real people, but doing it in the same breath that you critique people for spreading misinformation on the internet is some next-level hypocrisy.

      1. How did I take it out of context? It’s one of the author’s closing arguments. It’s fair to say that single paragraph is not representative of the larger point of the whole post (which again, I mostly agree with the author’s overarching argument), but the author pretty clearly thinks that the push to reduce vehicle emissions as a part of stopping climate change is a key contributor to killing car community or they would not have written the following:

        “At the end of the day, the car community is probably on borrowed time with the push for electric cars, ever-tightening EPA standards, and a global panic over ‘climate change’…”

        I fundamentally disagree with that implication, and it’s the same kind of thinking that leads to rolling coal or cutting electric vehicle charging cables, which are some of the more odious “car culture” behaviors out there.

        1. He is talking about a cultural change in the way that people view cars is going to cause a decline in the number of enthusiasts. He isn’t personally advocating that kind of behavior.

          1. He still put climate change in scare quotes unnecessarily.

            Climate change is real & there are implications to our actions.

            Car people suck because of thinking like that, which is incredibly selfish and anti-science.

          2. I am not taking sides for this but I have also seen studies from reputable sources that refute man’s contribution to global warming. The earth is warming for sure, but it has been warming from before the bulk of man’s influence on CO2 production. Temperature estimation from Berkly Earth, NASA, Japan Meteorological Agency, NOAA, Met Office Hadley Centre, and others all show a near-linear rise from before the industrial revolution. Manea Lowa volcano in Hawaii spews more CO2 than all man-made sources combined and that’s just one volcano. If you look at global temperatures over the last 65 million years the planet is at a historical low point in temperature. During the Paleocene-Eocene (sp?) era temperatures were up to 15 degrees more than now and the polar caps were gone. If you look at temps over the last 10 thousand years They have been pretty steady and our current rise seems in line with historical fluctuations within this period.

        2. These comments are super ironic given the subject of this article….

          Have a discussion if you’re all about it. It’s perfectly acceptable to have a debate, to question things, even if they’re the mainstream thought.

          For the subject of climate change, I do no doubt the weather is changing. Always has, always will. I do not think I should give up my freedom of travel or purchasing in a vain attempt to stop this from happening. The weather is the weather. Attacking 15% of manmade CO2 emissions (which represent ~4% of total CO2 emissions) by replacing it with another technology that just moves a still-significant portion of the emissions upstream (electricity isn’t free, nor is power transmission) when there is far-lower-hanging fruit is a bugbear in my opinion. Do cars affect the air we breathe? Absolutely, but killing an entire segment for marginal gains is foolhardy and virtuous of signal only.

    1. While slightly out of context, I agree with the criticism. The problem being the OP kind of sweeps several complex issues into one point. Ie tightening emissions restrictions in california for ex, has no benefit global level because of say china’s factory pollution. – So i agree that is ironically small minded thinking on a post that is generally about open mindedness…

      To which I say have you seen photos of their smog filled air and how it blocks the sun? no thanks lol. Driving or motorcycling is about enjoying the environment around you with a machine. Preserving that enjoyment is preserving the environment too so a balance has to be struck

    2. Yeah, the author could have left out that viewpoint for the sake of not riling up the people who disagree, but getting riled up over it is no more helpful. Climate change is a complex issue and not everyone is going to agree on it. I agree with you on it, but I intend to own and drive a gas powered car as long as I can manage it simply because that’s my hobby and I want to. Electric cars are also my hobby, but they’re so different that I look at them as another hobby entirely. They don’t take the place of modifying gas cars; they parallel it. So not even everyone who agrees with you on it will fully agree with taking the path it’s leading us on.

      The thing about the new frontier (as you put it) of car culture is that it’s an entirely new landscape. Yes, it will be great, but it won’t be the same and some elements of the old car culture will be lost. That’s what most are lamenting. They’re looking at the possibility that losing some elements will result in a loss of appeal to some people, leading to an overall decline in the number of people drawn to it. I think that’s a reasonable thing to worry about.

  12. This article is actually pretty deep so i enjoyed it.

    I enjoyed this piece despite the authors momentary ironic ignorant views at the end, I think it is a good criticism of society, and how people engage with the internet and car culture differently.

    Trolling, and hate, and one upping and wanting to be seen as aficionados are all egotistical things. Which is motorsport and competition at it’s finest. But I agree with the authors general point is that is makes things harder for a community to function well, to share knowledge and info.

    This subject of self and ego and society was on a youtube video with Russell brand featuring Dr Gabor mate talking about how society has become an eco chamber of narcissism and noise and hate and in reflection it elects those types of leaders 😉 Car culture is not immune to these plagues of society.

  13. Anonymity. That is what killed off, meaningful discussions online.
    That is simple an evolution from the in-person trash talk between rival car clubs from the 80’s/90’s.

    The advent of forums for hobbyists, were a great resource initially. But as the WWW spread, and was more accessible to all, even ingrate-holier-than-thou folks, it is the anonymity that was provided; that started trolls and even more trash talking. It was a platform for a voice of some 16yr old kid who couldn’t even drive but got his superstreet mags each month.

    These days, all it takes is some proper writing skills, some conviction in your opinion, and bam! You’re a voice of authority on a topic.

    <– Going back to my cup of coffee, and doing old person stuff.

    1. Absolutely agree with your hypothesis. If you think car guys trash talk then you haven’t been in MMA discussion groups. 😉
      The harshest criticisms are from guys who don’t fight (or even train).
      I bet that the harshest criticisms of custom cars are from those who never machined, tuned, welded or painted a damn thing.
      Sign o tha times

  14. The problem with the online community is the Comments Section (yes, I understand the irony). The line “opinions are like buttholes; everyone has one and they all stink” sums up the Interweb’s inherent flaw; comments, both positive and negative, serve no purpose other than to create the illusion that the reader is somehow involved with the greatness, or suckitude, of an article. A family friend used to send letters to Rolling Stone magazine with his opinion about every single article written about any subject. The worst part was they actually published one of his letters, which sent him on a lifelong quest to spread his opinions in every possible venue. Such a huge waste of time and effort.

  15. Depends what forums you go on. There are lots of smaller targeted forums that are exactly the opposite of what you’re bitching about here. Depends on the people doing the admin, they can either enforce order and boot the goofs out or stand by and let the place degenerate into a shtihole. There’s lots of good forums out there though.

  16. I’m an older guy and have been active in cars and the culture since before I could drive. I’ve done it all…muscle cars, pony cars, Japanese imports, sports cars, German cars, luxury cars, etc. And to the article above I say: Who cares? Because I certainly don’t.

    I’ve never cared what some random shemp (particularly online) thought about the “ugly” spoiler on my MKIV Supra. Or that my 996 911 was a “disappointing (and ugly)” Porsche. That my Audi TT was a “hairdresser’s car”. That my IS-F “wasn’t as good as the German competition”. That my Lexus luxury cars were “boring and sterile”. And the list goes on and on.

    I didn’t buy any of these cars for approval, I bought them for their own merits and most importantly, my own enjoyment.

    The sooner you stop caring about what Random Nobodies think about your automotive choices or tastes, the happier you’ll be. It’s just noise in the ether. From people who mean nothing to you. From people who aren’t worth your time and effort. From online people that you’ll likely never even meet. In fact, all of these people’s thoughts are so meaningless to me that they don’t even register highly enough in my world to even care about them, let alone “hate” them and their opinions.

    When applied properly, ignorance can truly be bliss.

    It is for me.

  17. It may have to do w/ the American arrogant culture in general. Not specifically car people, but people in general. People forget to respect others in general. Not just cars. Could be the pants they wear or the hair style. Anything. People automatically judge. Just how people are. You go to other cultures and people are more receptive of different ideas whether it be low to slamming your car or all out performance. Different mind set. Adding all that up, we get what we get in forums or facebook groups or twitter comments.
    We’re all victims. How many people laugh at other peoples cars if they have a big wing or certain sticker. Ask a simple question on a forum and you get flamed. Hell, just the other day, a friend showed me a typeo they made on fb and he became an instant clown and an idiot.

    1. I would definitely concur on American Arrogance being a factor.
      Country’s a Narcissistic Trashcan mostly BUT when you’re fed a diet of “We’re Blessed with The Best” from Cradle to Grave it happens.

      Joke’s on America tho b/c between the $32 TRIL in Debt and Inflation, the current screed of Red White & Blue are just slaves to the Banks that broker their existences.

  18. You are associating with the wrong kind of car people. There are 2 distinct groups. Car people that use cars as socio-economic status symbols, i.e. 95% of cars and coffee, or 98%model specific forum users are the kind that suck. These are the people who try to smoke the tires coming out of a carmeet and kill innocent bystanders as their mustang swerves violently out of control.

    Find enthusiasts that drive. For fun. Find enthusiasts that turn wrenches. For fun. We exist still. We aren’t on a corvette or porsche fanboy forum. We are probably on a Grassroots motorsports forum. We are volunteering at a weekend autocross, or trying to arrange a group to go karting on the weekend… we are quiet, but we are still out there…

  19. Oh. In addition to my above post, I need to add that I also married someone who loves cars as much as I do. So even in the absence of other tolerable car people, I’ll always have someone to talk to and indulge in this passion.

    But beware! This isn’t without its own perils! Because moving forward, you’ll never have a voice of reason or someone to save you from yourself during a needless or questionable car purchase. You will have no safety valve.

    Instead, the answer will ALWAYS be “yes, of course you should buy that car, duh! “. You’ll also never hear “Do we really need another car? “. Because she knows full well it will be another car for her to drive to fuel her passion too! Rather than being the advocate of reason, she’s a full on enabler.

    So in other words…I highly recommend this!

  20. I have been using forums since 2003. As a young high-schooler in Idaho, forums opened up a whole new world to me. The local forum was used to coordinate street racing but it also served as a gateway into imports, both Japanese and European. I’d argue that in those days, the message boards were MORE raw and rude. HOWEVER, there was a universal understanding of underlying respect for each person. This was reinforced when people would meet up once a month in person.

    There are still good message boards where the majority of the users “get it” are happy to share quality advice, as well and admit to being wrong (or open to other opinions). Typically they involve cars where ego isn’t a huge factor. One fantastic example is the bmw2002faq.com

  21. I read the whole rant. Here is mine.

    TL;DR of mine:
    I think the author only outgrew his enthusiasm, by getting old maybe. I felt similar some years ago. I think forums and meets have not changed, but his vision has. His diminishing enthusiasm let him see things for how they are, and were. Reading 10 year old messages from said forums should help the author understand it.

    Let me explain.

    I thought something similar some years ago, with the conclusion that forums and meets are not my cup of tea anymore. Just like the author i barely do it now, because most of what i hear or read makes me cringe.

    Thing is, unlike the author, i was on “the opposite” side. I was the guy that was curious and doubted everything, and that lead to getting hated and threatened for going against the general consensus.
    Expressing doubts on what most people hold true is not a good social move. I did not know at that time and learned the hard way. I wanted to expand my knowledge, and amongst the torrents of haters there were actually some interesting people that i could discuss with. Mostly in private messages since being seen discussing with me would hurt their local rep… They were also really seeking to know more. We still hang around, share what we know and discuss stuff, which does not mean we agree on everything.

    Anyway, i was the guy the author paint as “a know it all that only spouted nonsense and needed to be teached respect face to face”, which funnily was the message set as a reason for a permanent ban from one of these forums, 10 years ago.

    The story ? It happened after i doubted “lower = better handling & cooler”. Short version, after years of doubting, trials and errors, i ended up learning a lot about the S chassis and how to make it work. I then attended a trackday were i was quite faster than a couple of slammed s13 that i did not know about.
    The next day I tried to post onboard vids in the trackday section and got my ban notice instead. Turn out the slammed s13 owners were running a suspension parts business on that forum, and were quite vocal against my questions. Coincidence, eh …

    The conclusion i got is “never go against the opinion of groups of people”, or backfire effect will happen.
    Hence there is no way to find quality information on meets, or forums.
    Also, knowledgeable people might be found on meets/forums, but do not expect them to give their hard earned knowledge for free. Most engine builders have destroyed numerous engines before getting where they stand. Same goes for drivetrain or suspension specialists. Do not expect to get that for free.

    And thus, you will at best find generic, low value knowledge on forums. It always was, and it always will be.

  22. I think the car community is very saturated, too many ‘car people’ in my opinion.

    Also, many people think it’s en vogue to hate on things that don’t exactly apply to them and/or have limited knowledge on the subject. You see this all the time on forums, social media, and Youtube. Non technically inclined people love drama.
    Examples:
    -People hating on the new Supra/Civic Type R/BRZ FRS that aren’t even in a position to purchase said car and/or haven’t driven them.
    -People blaming the tuner when their car blows up even though their setup is wrong, i.e., car runs lean because fuel filter is too small for the setup or car doesn’t run right due to electrical problems from their ‘custom’ tucked harness…
    -It’s one thing if the manufacturer produces crap, it’s another thing if the product is actually decent and the end-user doesn’t know how to properly install and use the product they are installing.

    I think a little humility goes a long way…..

  23. Funny, I don’t think I’ve met anyone you’re complaining about. There are many reasons this passion is a dying one, and being critical about cars isn’t one. Automotive journalism is a good thing; this piece certainly wasn’t any of that. People have always bitched about new cars and nostalgic about the stuff they grew up with. This is not a ‘recent issue’.

    And yes, it’s ok to be frustrated at the lack of manual transmission availabilities, but your dollars speak louder than words.

  24. By far this is the greatest article explaining how the car culture has changed, for the worse, over the last many years. Everyone knows everything, everyone else is wrong and only my opinion matters over anyone elses. It use to be a area to show what you did with your time, money, and abilities.. now it’s a completely different scene.

  25. I recently purchased an AW11 MR2 that I plan on building out. I love 70s and 80s JDM and want to give this car a mix between the two decades. I researched for 6 months before I even made my first “parts” purchase. Decided to focus on wheel/tire setup and suspension first. I plan on eventually turning the car into a show car but want to run it as a weekend fun street car for a bit. My wheel tire susp setup supports that. I went to the forums to get feedback and ask questions. I was immediately met with a few toxic individuals berating me with insults and toxicity directed at my parts. They didn’t consider them authentic JDM and didn’t even give me a chance to explain how I wasn’t planning on spending $3k on a wheel setup until I had a proper fitment and knew I could pull off the aggressive setup I was attempting. I have plenty of cash for this build and plan on slowly stepping up this build as I become more comfortable with the car and know it’s headed in the right direction. I can guarantee I make a lot more money than these guys and have way more cash set aside for this than any build they have, after looking at their cars in their profile and posts. I would never mention that in a forum obviously but I was berated for being cheap and broke. My coilover choice was apparently not up to par but anyone doing any minimal research would see that there aren’t many coilovers manufactured for the AW11. It felt as if these guys did this sort of thing often and looked at themselves as some sort of gatekeepers. I deleted my account and left the forum immediately. I have plenty of shops and mechanics I’m working with that can give me all the info I need. It was very sad though because it would be great to be a part of a community that gave constructive feedback, opinions, direction since this is my first build. Better off with no forums and being exposed to that.

  26. Again as I’ve said also sick of political correctness and cancel culture even in the car community as well too.

  27. And by the way just as i’ve it doesn’t really even ever matter if its in capitals or not the letter z there really is no connection to the unfortunate Russian misuse of the z symbol stop the misinformation even on social media that is and plus it doesn’t even have the same unfortunate negative traumatic impact that the Nazi swastika , Celtic cross , Solar cross etc. Did and have in Nazi Germany during the holocaust even back in world war 2 there is just really no connection so please stop political correctness and stop cancel culture.

  28. Please stop using change.org , twitter.com , auto evolution.com , car and driver.com , youtube.com etc. Politically correct and cancel culture garbage as I’ve all said before.

  29. Please leave the letter z all alone even if it is in all Capitals just please leave it all alone please don’t ever cancel the letter z.

  30. Please read Germany’s ban on z won’t help solidarity with Ukraine from spiked online news so you can see what I mean because its just political correctness , cancel culture , censorship and as well as supression which isn’t fair and good.

  31. Please indefinitely stop political correctness and cancel culture nationally , internationally and as well as all globally it’s a cancer on all of our great human minds and bodies.

  32. Please also stop reading and watching the brainwashed news as well too and stop using social media and another thing please stop signing change.org petitions as well too it’ll only make you feel worse and feel weak.

  33. Also no no car , bus , truck , van , SUV etc. Is perfect that’s something the car community is seem to have long forgotten and it doesn’t matter if the automobile is new or old , good or bad etc. they all have their issues and quirks and you just have to live with them.

  34. Also in Knight rider both voice actors for K.A.R.R knight automated roving robot in the original knight rider series are all both very real great just in different ways Peter Cullen was a good prototype first take on K.A.R.R knight automated roving robot sure it was a little light of a voice but it got the job done , The late Paul Frees definitely an improvement over Peter Cullen and fits the evil character more also I like the exceedingly deep strong pure evil Darth vaderish voice he has and the tone is also good too and it’s great that they made him a full on more villainous evil artificially intelligent talking car that’s absolutely cruel and heartless and doesn’t care for his drivers or anyone but props to Peter Cullen for at least trying to make K.A.R.R knight automated roving robot at least sound evil.

  35. Not a fan of Peter cullen’s voice of K.A.R.R in the 2008-2009 knight rider series a little deeper but but not much also sounds too much like optimus prime from Hasbro’s Transformers which can be pretty off putting but still its serviceable even though it’s still a little too light I don’t hate it’s just still too light for my taste and still doesn’t seem to really fit but I think the voice would be an awesome fit for Nemesis prime from Hasbro’s Transformers though but props to Peter Cullen for at least taking another shot at the voice of K.A.R.R from Knight rider even though it wasn’t much but it was still at least again servicable.

  36. Also both knight rider K.A.R.R variants from the original knight rider series the Pontiac trans am t top and the new knight rider series ford mustang gt500kr are both great although the transformer go bot like robot is definitely a giveaway and misses the whole point of the character and doesn’t really fit .

  37. Also the K.I.T.T voice from the original knight rider series (William Daniels) is and was very real great and the voice of the K.I.T.T from the new knight rider series (Val Kilmer) is and was also pretty good as well but it was a little weak compared to William Daniels take but at least at is and was serviceable and it weirdly fit for the rest of the failed new Knight rider 2008-2009 series season 1 though and is and was at least alright.

  38. Also both K.I. T.T variants the Pontiac trans am t top from the original knight rider series and also the K.I. T.T variants from the new knight rider series the Ford mustang Gt500kr is and was also pretty good as well too.

  39. And by the if they ever do bring Knight rider back I think that K.I. T. T Knight Industries Two Thousand I think Steve Blum should get to voice him he has a great voice and I think it has potential and could be a great successor for William Daniels also for K.A.R.R Knight Automated Roving Robot I think Kevin Michael Richardson should get to voice him since he also has a very real deep strong fitting Darth Vader like type voice that sounds just pure evil just like the late Paul Frees does and also sounds like an evil villainous car that doesn’t care if anyone or anything gets hurt as well also too.

  40. Also In Knight rider I like K.A.R.R’s nice makeover that he got in the original knight rider series during the third season first all black with a yellow scan light bar to match the yellow voice box and then later black and silver two tone with a yellow scan light bar to match the yellow voice box and by the way prior to that in his first appearance in the first season of the original knight rider series he appeared all identical to K.I.T.T Knight Industries Two Thousand all black with a red scan light bar and the only real difference is and was the different voice box and coincidentally I like that look of the character to as well also.

  41. Also it should all be visually noted that originally in the first season K.A.R.R Knight Automated Roving Robot from knight rider originally appeared all identical to K.I.T.T Knight Industries Two Thousand all black with a red scanning light bar and the only difference is and was the different voice box , different engine noises , different scanner noises etc. and of course the different voice (Peter Cullen) as well too when K.A.R.R knight automated roving robot also in the original knight rider series during the first season of the original knight rider series K.A.R.R Knight Automated Roving Robot is and was formerly first voiced by Peter Cullen who would later go on to first voice after the first season of Knight Rider the heroic auto bot leader optimus prime in hasbro’s transformers when K.A.R.R knight automated roving robot later returned again in the third season of the original knight rider series K.A.R.R Knight Automated Roving Robot is and was voiced instead by the late Paul Frees who also first voiced the Ghost Host in the original incarnation of the Disney haunted mansion ride also when K.A.R.R Knight Automated Roving Robot returned he is at first similar to K.I.T.T Knight Industries Two Thousand although still all black he now has a instead has yellow scanning light bar and this is done to match the color of the yellow voice box , he later gets a black and silver two tone paint job to go along with the yellow scanning light bar to match the color of the yellow voice box again with the yellow scanner light in mind this is again done to match the color of the yellow voice box and also differentiate fully against K.I.T.T Knight Industries Two Thousand also when K.A.R.R Knight Automated Roving Robot returns in the third season his voice also again different than that of K.I. T. T’s but this time it is much deeper and lower and above all else stronger and more evil this is thanks in part due to the great vocal talents of the late Paul Frees who really made K.A.R.R Knight Automated Roving Robot very real genuinely fitting pure evil and mean spirited voice that made him downright cruel and heartless also when K.A.R.R returns in the third season his engine sounds more similar to K.I.T.T but with an audio reverb effect added to it also when K.A.R.R returns in the third season of the original knight rider series his scanner also sounds similar to K. I. T. T but again with an audio reverb effect added to it despite many other various important changes K.A.R.R Knight Automated Roving Robot remains correct with Knight rider continuity he still has the earlier version of the K.I. T. T Knight Industries Two Thousand dashboard and interior which is and was previously once seen in K.I.T.T during all of the first season and the second season this is interesting because as it turns out K.I.T.T’s dashboard and interior were all professionally updated during the start of the third season and as well as the start of the final fourth season with updated dash equipment , updated features , updated interior , updated exterior etc. Compared to K.A.R.R Knight Automated Roving Robot his interior and features basically despite the revamp remained all essentially unchanged from his first season appearance in season one of the original knight rider series.

  42. Sorry if this is off topic but by the way if they do another live action hasbro transformers film and as well as even another animated series like transformers prime with Peter Cullen as Optimus prime and Frank Welker as Megatron they should get Ron Pearlman to do the voice of Galvatron from hasbro’s transformers since he can pull off the unhinged and gravelly deep voice like the late Leonard Nimoy did in The Transformers: the movie with Galvatron from hasbro’s transformers by the way Frank Welker is great as Galvatron from Hasbro’s transformers even in the generation one transformers series and also transformers: age of extinction but in both instances it sounds rather indistinct like all I can hear as Megatron its not a bad thing at all and the voice is serviceable at least but for the character of Galvatron from transformers it doesn’t sound at all that specific and unique to that type of Hasbro transformers character even in the transformers generation one cartoon but other than that’s its an adequate performance of the character of Hasbro’s transformers galvatron . now for future performances of Hasbro’s transformers Galvatron I would again even like to see William Shatner , Ron Pearlman , Jason Douglas , JB Blanc , Clancy Brown , Tim Curry etc. take a shot at the vocal role of Galvatron as a non-insane version of Galvatron from Hasbro’s Galvatron now for other more insane takes on Hasbro Transformers Galvatron I would like too see future performances of John DiMaggio , Troy Baker , Scott Mcneil etc. Take a shot at the vocal role of voicing the more insane takes on Galvatron from Hasbro’s Transformers.

  43. Also if there’s another transformers film just like the transformers one live action film without Peter Cullen as optimus prime and as well as Frank Welker as Megatron I think Idris Elba should voice Galvatron from Hasbro’s Transformers.

  44. Now for future heroic takes/villainous takes on Hasbro’s Optimus prime and as well as hasbro transformers Nemesis Prime I think that J.K Simmons , Troy Baker , Travis Willingham , Robert Atkin Downs etc. Would be great in the role.

  45. Also Fred Tartiscore should again get a shot at voicing Hasbro’s Megatron but outside of just the video games what about the live action films , animated shows , animated movies etc. I bet he’ll be great as Megatron in all those instances as well too and get to shine in the role as Megatron even further.

  46. By the way as for Unicorn from Transformers I have no complaints there all very good at the role but for future performances of Hasbro’s Transformers even in the live action films I think Keith David would be absolutely fantastic as Unicorn from Hasbro’s Transformers.

  47. I would go even further. Something essential to human life must be missing in ones life if he glorifies combustion engine vehicle which exhaust fumes damage theirs and others health, and have been proven to be carcinogenic. To me it is like glorifying tobacco smoking i.e. by Hollywood in the past. If you are logical, sensible and intelligent human being, surely you cannot glorify something that damages health and well being of you and others. So that is why I welcome the dawn of fully electric motoring, be it car, bicycle, motorbike etc. Vehicle should be a means of getting the you from A to B safe and faster than i.e. walking, hopefully not damaging others and the planet in doing so.

  48. By the way another important thing car people forget is that driver less car technology can and should be able to be retrofitted to cars of all ages , makes , models etc. Just like Electric vehicle technology cars , trucks , buses etc. of all makes , models , years etc. Is and can be retrofitted to cars of all ages , makes , models etc.

  49. Also besides driver less automobiles , motorcycles , trucks , buses , delivery trucks , school buses etc. Being the future so are pedestrian malls because you shouldn’t have to drive anywhere and everywhere if you don’t want to you should have a choice to walk , run , drive , rail , sea , air , taxi , bus etc. , etc. , etc. If you want to do so.

  50. Also gasoline engines , diesel engines and manual transmissions are not the future sorry to say so instead the future is automatic transmissions , electric vehicles , driver less automobiles etc. Get used to it.

    1. And by the way another important thing the car community forgets to mention is that there are actually four school bus types in all always all any and all of the USA and Canada which are Type A small school buses , Type B small school buses , Type C large school buses and of course as well as Type D large school buses.

  51. Also for semi trucks there’s more than one type of semi truck there’s the conventional body but of course there’s also the cabover engine body.

  52. And by the way Jay Leon’s garage although it is and was a very real good show by Jay Leno himself in the past I feel like its time for him to let it go bye , bye because its well past its great golden years and just isn’t the same cool fun exciting great automobile show anymore today Jay Leno’s Garage it just feels ancient , outclassed , outdated , boring , mean spirited , unoriginal , tiresome , weak , underpowered , obsolete etc. by many other autombile shows whether old or new The magic of Jay Leon’s Garage just isn’t there , the fun of Jay Leon’s Garage isn’t there , the great humor of Jay Leno’s Garage just isn’t there etc. And so on and so fourth now don’t get me wrong I loved Jay Leno’s Garage but it’s just not the same exciting fun great automobile show anymore I’m sorry to say so it’s far better off that Jay Leno’s Garage is and was all indefinitely retired by NBC all for good so it can rest in peace and all be remembered as a great automobile show that’s very real good and not a horrible automobile show that’s just very real terrible.

  53. And by the way social media and regular daylight saving time don’t help in ending automobile collisions and automobile fatalities once and for all all indefinitely all for good.

  54. Regular daylight saving time with annual clock changes and as well as social media are all both major contributors to automobile collisions and as well as automobile fatalities yes its seriously factually indefinitely all true.

  55. Without regular daylight saving time with annual clock changes and of course without social media people , all people would be far much more better focused on the road and driving safely and people would be far less likely to be injured or murdered by automobile motor vehicles.

  56. Regular daylight saving time with annual clock changes and of course social media just aren’t safe and secure for driving automobile motor vehicles not only is it unintelligent its also downright dangerous.

  57. Another thing the automobile motor vehicle community doesn’t talk about is how gasoline engines and of course diesel engines contribute to the very real huge negative human problems of climate change.

  58. Gasoline engines and diesel engines in Automobile motor vehicles are seriously negatively impacting the great natural climate of the United States of America.

  59. Time to please indefinitely switch to all electric automobile motor vehicles in all of the United States of America to indefinitely protect and preserve the great natural climate of the United States of America.

  60. Hello everyone! I am late to the party here on this discussion (and new to motoiq as well).

    Here is my take as a 19-year-old young car enthusiast about the article. (I would like to share my thoughts as a young person, because several young car guys have been stigmatized on some communities) Buckle up, this is a very long take.

    I agree with many things in the article here. (except, the EV point which is a bit of a question mark)

    I have formerly been on car communities on Reddit, YouTube, Quora (very briefly), several private car forums (Lexus, Mazda, CarTalk, etc.), browsed articles on Car and Driver and Motortrend (…and the comments, bad decision), and have meet car people in high school and college. So, to sum up, I have heard a lot of car people’s points.

    Nicolas Girard and Mike Kojima mentioned a very good point about the comments on YouTube and Facebook being useless and snotty and I would like to add on to that. Not just YouTube comments but YouTube car content creators.

    About a decade ago, I grew up watching Saabkyle04. I really enjoyed his car content growing up. He not only reviewed Ferraris, McLarens, Porsches, Audis, BMWs, and all the luxury cars, he also reviewed everyday cars which everyone can afford like Ford, GM, Toyota, Mazda, Subaru, Hyundai/Kia, Honda, and other standard brands. More importantly, he explained every car in detail, talking about the history of the car or brand, complimented the startup (saying “Beautiful sound from that V6 engine”, “Fantastic!”, etc.), talked about the car’s specifications like transmission or engine in-depth. He did not compare any car to another car saying which car better, talking about infotainment systems, talking about how fast or slow the car is, if the car is track-ready or has the best driving dynamics, and all the things modern car reviewers do. Most car content creators/reviewers were like Saabkyle04, 10-20 years ago and even in the 90s. However, as time went on, with content creators like Doug DeMuro and Scotty Kilmer (the most biased car YouTubers IMHO) the comments started to degrade, become more biased, full of shit, immature and the breeding ground to stupidity.

    10-15 years ago, comments were wholesome, funny, very detailed, intelligent (the trying to help comments):

    1. “Sweet 🙂 Love all the lights and really love those adaptive rotating lights on the lexus. 🙂 Oh yeah my calico loves to sleep in the tightest of spaces and loves to knock things off 😐 Makes me mad lol”
    2. “does the aveo need an oil change? perhaps the tappets are clogged and may not be getting the lubrication they need.”
    3. “I like those gauges on the Villager. Reminiscent of a Honda S2000! :)”
    4. “A 96 Grand Cherokee with only 97,000 miles is rare. Looks in great condition too.”
    5. “It looked like the GMC’s steering was struggling, and I think I could hear it whining a little bit. The power steering system probably needed to be flushed. Those are really nice trucks, though!”

    Now, in 2023, the comments went to total bullshit:

    1. “Automatic transmissions are for women. Manual transmissions are for real men.”
    2. “Toyotas are POS cars. I’ll rather get a Hyundai over this garbage. (This is a type of comments I very much dislike in the car community)
    3. This is a list of comments (Also stating the brand and car model fanboy comments and the brand stereotype comments):
    a. One guy says: “Mazda fan boy…. Boring ass line of cars.”
    b. Another guy said: “The Mazda is much funner to drive, sorry man, anything but boring”
    c. The original commenter says: “it’s ugly. It might be fun for you but that doesn’t mean it’s fun for everyone. It’s a grandma car to me.”
    d. The same guy replying said: “wait, you know this is for comparing the CX5 to the CRV right? Not an Audi or something. The CX5 looks head and shoulders better than the CRV which looks like a Dodge Journey or a mid 2000’s Caravan.”
    e. The original commenter (again) said: “you’re very biased. Clearly. Mazda is a grandma car.”
    4. “Sure be a nicer car with a manual.”
    5. Not a quoted comment, but warning, this is an unpopular opinion. Any hate comments about CVT transmissions.
    6. “not v6 not buying it. no 300hp no buy.”
    7. “Cheap and ugly . For $45k I can drive 21 BMW 740 low milage.”

    Please note, before you raise your pitchforks for the bullshit comments in 2023, I quoted, I haven’t driven a manual, but I totally respect people who prefer to drive a manual transmission over automatic, as long as the manual fans do not scream at how “bad” automatic transmissions are. I want to drive a manual car someday, that will sure be on my bucket list!

    But anyways, see the difference 10-15 years ago, vs now? Difference in intelligence, experience, and attitude.

    Also, side note, individual car brand communities like Mazda, I didn’t feel welcome in one Mazda community on Reddit. They always picked favorite car models and if you argued against a car model they hated by saying you liked that car model (downvoting their hate comment or replying against them), they will get mad and attack you.

    Dooshnozzle5000 was spot on about Automotive once being a “Everyman’s Event” and now a Rich Man Status Quo” kinda thing. I also have an idea about that and will also bring up age of car guys and car owners.

    Once again, I am very young in the car scene, but I am a proud owner of a 2022 Mazda3 Turbo and a person passionate about cars since childhood. I have been to a car show back in 2016 with my friend (we were very young back then) and we felt welcomed exploring the latest car models. I remembered sitting in the 2016 Jeep Wrangler, 2016 Mazda3, 2016 Mazda Miata, and the 2016 Mazda6. Memories!

    And 10-20 years ago, young people (kids, teens, and young adults) felt welcomed in car shows and, in the forums, as well. Sure, there weren’t a lot of children on forums, but teens and the young adult crowd took part and related to their experiences.

    The writer of the article brought up an experience of a car show as well:

    “I vividly remember a kid who couldn’t have been much more than 10-12 years old, a good handful of years away from getting his driver’s license, talking with passion about the great sounding naturally aspirated 6.3L V8 in the new C63 AMG GT, or the competing 4.0L 8,300rpm V8 in the E92 M3. In the import-tuner community, people either cherished the impressive off-the-showroom-floor drifting capability of the 350Z, or the over-the-top performance of the R35 GTR.”

    However, as the years went by, the forums relied on car enthusiasts with 6 figure or 7 figure income jobs, experienced mechanics, and more and more older people. This isn’t a bad thing and I think everyone regardless of age should be welcomed, but the young crowd started to grow up, and the kid, teen, and young adult crowd in 2023 started to disappear. (The only exception was 12-year-old keyboard warriors on YouTube)

    I have noticed on Reddit, YouTube, and private car forums comments that no kid, teen or young adult can relate to or has done in their lives. They talk about going to car dealers test driving (the Reddit community called it cross-shopping) several car models, renting a specific car, going to an automaker driving experience or track experiences (some young people are lucky if had the opportunity to do this). I am not saying they are bad comments, but us the young crowd CANNOT relate to any of these comments. In fact, there are age restrictions in dealerships, rental car companies, and more age restrictions in the car world. (Will get to that in a moment)

    To give you some context, I am talking about those comments:

    1. “Now I rented a Camry once, and I rented an impala once also. And although they did their job, they were truly two of the most boring cars I’ve ever driven. Some cars I don’t mind making payments on but those two, no way I would enter into a long term commitment. Even the Jeep’s with all their faults were more interesting to drive.”
    2. “I had to rent a Toyota Camry recently that was equipped with ACC, it was such a terrible system that I couldn’t use it for the 6 hour drive I had the car for. And because it exclusively has ACC, I had no cruise for the drive. It has all of the finesse of a 15 year old during the first 15 minutes operating a car.”
    3. “BMW and Benz offer adaptive cruise control that is significantly more sophisticated than what mainstream brands offer. Every time I get a rental Toyota or Mazda or Nissan, etc I’m always surprised at how abysmal their ACC is. To the point it’s almost unusable. Meanwhile, the Drive Pilot system in my 8 year old E-Class works pretty flawlessly even in moderate to heavy traffic. The systems both Benz and BMW offer today are even better with more functionality (auto lane changes, etc). So you’re paying extra, but also getting a system that brings a lot more to the table.”
    4. “Had an Infiniti Q60 of these as a rental. It was ok. G35/37 were so cool when they came out.”
    5. I’ve driven both the Mazda CX-30 AWD and Lexus UX250h AWD for a few days and I can understand the comparison.
    6. In the past 2 months I have driven a Ford Edge, Toyota Rav4, Mitsubishi Outlander S, Jeep Compass, Toyota Tacoma SR5, and now I am in a Ford Explorer.

    More on this. The minimum age to rent a car (this is for the US and specific countries) is 21. And even if you are 21, you must pay the young-driver surcharge until you are 25. I, and part of the young crowd are not even old enough! And we cannot even afford the fees/surcharges! Yes, in New York and Michigan, the minimum age to rent a car is 18, but the surcharges for the 18–20-year-old folks is astronomically high. The minimum age to test driving a car at a dealership varies, but I didn’t get a chance to test drive other models before buying my cars, due to personal reasons or dealership order reasons.

    I get the car dealership, rental car companies and other car places enforce their own age policies (which part of the car community and general public agree with) because young drivers (between 15-24 yrs. old) are seen as high risk drivers, as per statistics by their insurance companies. I understand. There are bad apples when it comes to teen drivers and young drivers. You can have that one teen driver who has an Audi TT and gets two speeding tickets even before that person is 18. (I knew that one person in real life).

    Speaking of insurance companies, if you are under 25 (yup, me included…), your rates are very high. Once again, statistics showing young drivers are high risk. Those high rates have excluded young people from owning cars, making some of them feel left out. I am lucky my family and I found a loophole to the high rates.

    So, to sum up if the insurance companies tomorrow said, “Lets lower the rates for 15-24 yr. old drivers or even better drop the rates!” and the rental car companies said, “Instead of a 21+ age, make the minimum age 18+!” (which will not happen, bad business decision), us young people would feel included in the present-day car communities. We would have a voice as well and contribute. But the age restrictions in the car businesses (rental cars, dealership vehicles, etc.) and the high rates insurance companies have set up has excluded us young people.

    I know I am rambling a lot, but here is my final point (Don’t worry, I am almost done talking), but this elaborates more on Dooshnozzle5000’s point on the “Everyman’s Event” and now a Rich Man Status Quo” kinda thing.

    On Reddit, I noticed people who have a ridiculous number of cars in their flair’s username. Seriously look at the cars they own in their flairs:

    1. ’23 Type-R, s2k AP2, Model 3, NSX Type-S
    2. ’21 Tacoma/’19 TourX/’88 560Sl
    3. ’16 Camaro 2SS, ‘18 V60 Polestar, ‘22 F-250 Tremor
    4. 16 Miata, 18 Model 3, 22 BRZ, 18 Accord, 19 Mazda 3
    5. 5.0 foxbody, Dodge Ram, Chevy Impala

    Wow, 3-5 cars for one person! I mean congratulations for owning so many cars, but how do even manage insurance?! How are you even able to manage with so many cars?! I know people in real life who are successful in their jobs that have one car, one!

    Young people owning 3-5 cars, forget it (unless you are a millionaire or entrepreneur at a very young age). Are we supposed to have a dream car collection to take part or feel part of the conversation in a community?!

    So yeah, this is the state of the car community in 2023. I am glad I left these communities. I didn’t feel welcomed at all in those communities and glad to take part in a discussion like this.

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